Stephen: You're in for a treat. We had the one, the only, Jaime Leverton, former CEO of Hut 8, builder, and CEO of ReserveOne talking all about digital asset treasuries, digital asset stockpiles, what it's like to run multiple public companies and building while being a parent. This has been one of the best conversations.

Jaime is so organized in her thought process and building in this space, and she's been in crypto, Bitcoin mining, digital assets, cloud infrastructure, and she gives us a wealth of her experience and knowledge and drops in some gems about what builders can do in this space going forward, including working with and building some of the top crypto talent around the world that have zero egos.

This is a great episode for anyone building in the crypto payment tech space. We talk a lot about stable coins and the regulations in the US versus Canada. Great to have Jaime on the episode hearing more about the ReservedOne and we can't wait to see what they're building. But check out this episode.

If you're a builder in this space, especially those OGs that have been listening to this podcast for the last decade, this is a treat for you. Talk soon.

Stephen: This is your host, Stephen Sargeant, Around The Coin Podcast. We have an exceptional guest today, Jaime Leverton, CEO of ReserveOne. Many know you of the CEO of Hut 8. You know a lot of companies that have a word and a number in it, which I find interesting to have back to back companies like that. Uh, Jaime, I would love to know, gimme a little bit of a background.

We're gonna talk a little bit about what you've built up until this point and your vast amount of experience in different worlds, including telco.

Jaime: Try not to age me. You really emphasized the word vast there, Stephen.

Stephen: That was around knowledge and experience and the different companies, not years, not years.

Jaime: No, it's all good. I have been around, uh, two and a half decades now in this space. So certainly, um, had a lot of amazing experiences over my career and feel very blessed that I continue to, to do that and be a builder, uh, with my new venture here at ReserveOne. So it's, it's amazing to be on the show.

Thank you so much for having me.

Stephen: I'm curious, was there a path that you had, I think we all grew up in like, you know, especially when we were in those formative years of leaving university and going into a career, was there a certain path that you had or maybe you know, something that diverted you from that path? A conversation, an introduction, you know, to a company or a person or a mentor?

Is there like, can you think of a moment where like, I was going down this path and then like something really interesting hit me and that changed the course of my career?

Jaime: Actually I've, I've had a couple of those. I think the first one came very early. Um, I was in a bit of a rush to, uh, to get out of the, my hometown. Uh, so I started university when I was 17. And I actually didn't even know you had to declare a major. That's how naive I was at the time. Uh, and I went to the University of Ottawa.

Um, as, as you know, I'm Canadian. Um, I went to the University of Ottawa, and if you didn't declare a major, they just defaulted you into political science because Ottawa is the, is the capital of Canada. Um, and so I, I stuck with it and I added a concentration in psychology. Um, and while I was going to university, I, I bartended, I waitressed, I was the assistant manager at a restaurant in Ottawa.

And then when I was coming into my last year of undergrad, I realized I had no idea what to do after a, a PoliSci and psych undergrad doesn't exactly lead to a certainty and a career path, nor did my waitressing career. Uh, so I went to the guidance office at the University of Ottawa and I said, look, I have no idea what to do with my life.

This, this is my. These are my degrees. This is my experience, and they put me through a whole bunch of interest and aptitude testing basically to spit out the the top careers that I would be most likely to be successful at and enjoy doing. And long story short, seven of the top 10 were in business. So I had obviously chosen the wrong, uh, the wrong start in my university career, but because I had the assistant manager experience at the restaurant, I was able to apply to do my MBA right out, right out of undergrad.

And, uh, I chose Dalhousie University on the east. Coast of Canada to do, uh, to do my MBA. And they were the first MBA program at that time, which was, I graduated in 2000, so I guess 98 is when I started. Um, they offered a concentration in marketing informatics, which is really the precursor to what is now big data or business inte.

And I had been lucky that I grew up with computers in the house and I loved coding and gaming, and so I thought to do an MBA that, that had this concentration and let me play around with data and with computers. I just thought that would be, that would make my MBA experience more, more fun for me. Um, and ultimately that's, that's what led to me starting a career in tech, uh, because IBM recruited myself and one other person from that program moved me to Toronto.

And uh, and that's where I started my career at IBM in 2000.

Stephen: I'm really curious about, you know, the MBA. Looking back, you've probably, you know, been introduced to so many entrepreneurs, many at different levels.

You, you're a mentor in this space. Do. Do you think that I was like actually having this conversation with myself today. I'm like, there's so much I don't know about business being an entrepreneur.

I'm like, I wonder how much more I would be comfortable with numbers and ebitda had I went and got an MBA or went to business school. Do you see the benefit of that? 'cause it seems like people, we went through a stage where like people were like shutting MBAs and it

wasn't as important. What are your thoughts on that looking back now?

Jaime: Looking back, I think I actually, um, I think my combination was really, really perfect for me, where I ultimately wanted to go. Um, being a CEO of a public company, I, I rely on my psych and PoliSci degrees as much as my MBA. Um, but certainly I wouldn't have been able to step into the career I've had if I didn't have the MBA.

And so for me it was incr, incredibly valuable. Um. But as you referenced, I'm, I do mentor a ton of, uh, people in the space and, and often I get that question, should I do my MBA? And it's very, it's very person specific. It, it, it's about what they're trying to get out of it. Can they do an executive MBA? Um, what's their family situation?

I think I, it's, it's very much a case by case answer for me. I would say on the whole, I probably, um, advise against it more often than I'm supportive of it. Um, and that's really just when you put everything in the, in the balance. It's not an, it's not an easy answer for sure.

Stephen: I love it. You know, one of the interesting things on your resume is the Blackberry, you know, Blackberry, 2014, 2016. I think

most people would've thought like Blackberry was probably dead by then, or transitioning out of. Devices into more like I, OT or IT things. What was it like working for Blackberry at the later stages when you're in charge of the North American market, which was like heavily impacted by obviously iOS and uh, Android at that time.

Jaime: Yeah, I mean, we could do a whole podcast just on my Blackberry experience. Um, by the time I went to Blackberry, I had started to, to specialize my career in transformation work. So, um. In the early years, taking on underperforming business units and trying to figure out how to, how to fix them, how to bring, you know, more, more positive revenue or EBITDA or whatever the challenge they were having.

Um, really trying to, to fix it and, and. Produce more positive results for the business units. And over time that, that became true for, for me, in, in companies as well. Uh, and so the opportunity to go to Blackberry came about in, uh, early mid 2014. John Chen had recently taken over. Um. The company really to drive a transformation mandate.

'cause Blackberry, to your point, was, was in a super difficult spot. Um, it had gone through a series of, of challenges, which you could see in the Blackberry movie. For those of you that are interested in, in those early years of Blackberry, it's actually a great movie. Um. And so for me it was an opportunity to get a front row seat and watch John Chen and his team drive a transformation mandate.

John had done two really successful tech transformations in, in the United States, and this was his third. Uh, so for me, starting to carve out a niche for myself and transformation, there was no better front row seat, uh, than Blackberry. In 14, and part of part of my mission was to try to save the handset division.

So over those, over that, um, that period that I was there, we launched Android as an operating system on the Blackberry device, and that was a spectacularly incredible experience. And we were able to get ranging with all of the major North American carriers, which nobody thought was possible. Uh, we launched a couple of really, really incredible, incredible phones.

Blackberry had a, a patent, uh, portfolio that was, that was second to none at the time. And, and a lot of that technology was in, was, uh, integrated into their handsets. Really, really beautiful devices, but ultimately it was just, it was too late and we didn't have the war chest that we needed from a marketing perspective.

We'd lost a lot of market share. Uh, and Apple and Samsung were just, frankly too dominant. So ultimately, the company made the decision to, uh, to license the handset business and, uh, and focus exactly to your, to your opening on software and, and iot, which, uh, has been, has been very successful. And certainly was the right move for them at the time.

But as a proud Canadian, uh, Blackberry user from day one, I didn't wanna give up my, my keyboard at all. And it was a, it was a really tough transition to all glass. But here we are.

Stephen: Yeah, nobody did. I think. Do you have like a nightstand,

like

Jaime: I do,

Stephen: with like a bunch of blackberries in it, used ones in

it, a bunch of headphones,

adapters. Well, I think we all have that kind of

headset, but hey, you know, looking at, you know, I was in, you know, tell us the other day or a Best Buy mobile and they're bringing back like the razor phones.

Like you never know what could happen with nostalgia. Right. Uh, I have a deconstructed game boy behind me, but I'm sure Blackberry will have a similar thing. People will make a business out of it. I wanna talk a little bit about Hut eight, which was a huge success, but you take over as CEO in 2020, and I

think if many of us have been in crypto, especially since the 2017 hype. 2020, like talking about Bitcoin was like, you know, talking about AI in 2020. Like

nobody was really talking about it. They knew about it. A lot of companies were in, you know, AI at the time, but nobody was really talking about what was it like, you know, especially working in such a stagnant industry after a 2017 bull market, it was the perfect time for skeptics to say, Hey, look, what's

happening? How did you end up transitioning into Bitcoin mining? And did you leverage some of your cloud-based infrastructure, telco experience in working, uh, with digital asset mining?

Jaime: Yeah, for, for sure. Uh, at the end of the day, a Bitcoin mine is, is a data center.

There are lots of significant differences between a Bitcoin mining data center and a, and a high performance computing data center, or traditional, um, co-location data center. But fundamentally, a lot of the operational elements are the same.

And over the, my 20 year career before I took over hut, uh, that in the fall of 2020, I spent a lot of time in the data center space. Um, I, I had mult multiple stints at different companies within data centers. I loved, I loved infrastructure. Um, I, I referenced that I had developed a specialty in transformation.

And had eight that fall was, was in a really difficult period. They, they had struggled during the, um, the COVID Bitcoin crash in the spring. Um, the, the stock was trading on the, on the venture, and then that fall actually moved up to the TSX big board. Uh, but it was, it wasn't particularly liquid. Um, we had a lot of, a lot of challenges in the, in the company overall.

They'd been, they'd had an interim CEO for a number of months and the board, um. The board got my name through an executive recruiter that I had worked with before on a couple of other transformation mandates. And, uh, and so over a series of months, um, the board and I got to know each other and, and understand kind of their vision for the company longer term and, and my background and my skillset.

And then. Ultimately, I made the decision to take the plunge, um, which wasn't for the faint of heart, right? It was my first, first CEO job. And, uh, it was of a public company in a very nascent, volatile, you know, somewhat controversial space. Um, and the company was, was in trouble. So. Uh, it certainly wasn't for the faint of heart that I stepped into that role, uh, but I fundamentally believed in the business.

I believed in the space. I believed I could, I could turn it around in a way that that would be meaningful for shareholders and, and for stakeholders, employees, the board, everybody. Uh, and, uh, I'm, I'm blessed that, that, that that ended up being true, that I was able to come in and, uh, drive real change quickly from a transformation perspective, uh, and then build out some really significant innovations in the space.

Uh, we were the first. Publicly traded mining company to say we were, we're no longer going to sell our Bitcoin, we were gonna hoddle our Bitcoin. Um, we were the first to transition into the data center space, uh, when we, we purchased the Tego data center business in early 2022. That's obviously a big, big trend in the, in the mining space now, but, um,

Stephen: AI and everything else. Did you see a shift into, like, obviously now everyone's talking about physical manufacturing when back then, like looking at. You know, people probably weren't, you know, lining up at,

Jaime: Oh gosh, I got

Stephen: at HU eight Bitcoin mining sites trying to give you monies, like VCs and stuff. But

Jaime: No, I got a lot of heat. I pe.

Stephen: to get on there?

I'm curious about that because I'm assuming it was a big educational, uh, experience where you have to educate them.

You know, nobody wants to be the first, 'cause usually the first means that you're gonna come with some lessons learned. So how did you get them and convince them and educate them on why Hut 8 should be on the. The TSX

Jaime: the company was already public when I took over. It was already on the venture and in the process of, before I came on officially. But during the interview process, actually I was announced, so I think my head is in the video, uh, when we rang the virtual bell, 'cause it was still COVID, um, of the TSX big board.

And, and we were the first to graduate from the Venture Sandbox Program, which is a really successful program that, um, that the TSX. Has has run. And we were lucky to be, uh, their first graduate in the space if memory serves, which I think I'm right. Um, so that was awesome. And then we were, we were also, um, fortunate enough to be the first public Bitcoin mining company, Canadian public Bitcoin mining company to dualist onto the nasdaq, which we did in the spring, uh, of 21.

And that, that brought a. Ton of visibility, uh, to hut eight and what we were doing, a lot of incremental liquidity into the stock, of course. Uh, and really that kind of catapulted hut into a different stratosphere when we were able to, to tap into, to both, both the TSX proper and, and the NASDAQ as well.

Stephen: I love it. Let's jump into ReserveOne because you know there's a lot of momentum. You know, Trump is completely turned around the way digital assets. Are viewed in the US It seems like a stable Coin company is popping up every day now. And there's, as a someone that's really close to the crypto compliance space, there's a lot of hiring going on for, you know, series A companies or pre-seed companies there.

What's it like being in the US now, you know, versus what you were seeing, especially back in the Bitcoin mining.

Jaime: Yeah, it, it, look from a regulatory perspective, it's, it's completely different. I, I, um, completed the, the merger between Hut 8 and US Bitcoin in, uh, 24. We. We also red domiciled the company. We moved headquarters from Canada to the us. Um, and that was all under the Gensler regime, which was, uh, really, really difficult.

Really painstaking. We, we had had to spend a lot of time, a lot of money on lawyers to. Ultimately get that deal approved and, and through and, and get us trading, uh, directly on, on the NASDAQ as a, as a, as a direct issuer as opposed to what we were before, which was a foreign issuer, uh, coming from, from Canada and the TSX.

This time, um, we are, we're in the process of, of getting our S four together to file. We announced, um, our business combination agreement in July. Uh, we're, we're going public via a DAD spac. Um, so the, the SPAC Company, which is a, a blank check company for the, for those that aren't familiar, um, it. It has 287.5 million in, in the SPAC Trust, but no, it doesn't have an operating company.

It was looking for an operating company. Uh, and that, that is, that is where they found me. And ReserveOne, ReserveOne, uh, is the, is the target. And so we are going through the process with, ultimately, with the SEC to approve this business combination agreement and allow, um, us to merge into that, that existing spac.

The, the ticker of that SPAC is MBAV. But once the deal closes, we, uh, we will trade under, uh, R one, RONE as, as the new ticker. And, and hopefully we'll, we'll get that done, um, before the, before the end of this year, somewhere between Thanksgiving and Christmas. US Thanksgiving and Christmas.

Stephen: Yeah, you have to, as both Canadians are like Thanksgiving is like next month. Uh, I'm curious, can you break down maybe just kind of high level, because we've heard of SPACs before, like is it an entity that had a bunch of, you know, capital that they want? And deploy.

And now you're coming in and showing them like, Hey, these are the assets we wanna deploy, and then this is our strategy.

And now you're com combining your efforts of your operational expertise

and their capital. That's just looking for a place to store it.

Jaime: That's, that's, that's exactly, uh, right at a, at a high level. Um, we, we also announced that we had raised a pipe in conjunction with the business combination agreement. So we raised $750 million, uh, 250 in a convert, 500, uh, million in, in equity. Uh, and then there is the, the cash that sits. Back trust, which I, me, as I mentioned, was 287.5 million.

So, um, looking to, to come to market with a significant amount of capital, uh, which we'll deploy into digital assets, um, we're, we are very unique as far as what we're building here at ReserveOne. Uh, we are inspired by the, the, the momentum that we're seeing from the federal government. in two parts.

So the strategic Bitcoin reserve, uh, is one element and, and we'll have about 80% of our, of the digital assets we hold will be in Bitcoin. and then the other 20% really inspired by the digital assets stockpile. Um, so far we believe, um. Ethereum Solana, XRP and a DA will be held in that stockpile. Uh, and so that's what will mirror in that, that 20% sleeve that we have.

Um, for, for alternative, uh, tokens. Uh, we, we determine the weighting mechanism, so it'll be more heavily weighted towards E and Solana because they're, they give us a good ability to generate yield. And one of the differences for us as well is that we will be actively looking to generate revenue or yield, uh, from the assets while we hold them on the balance sheet.

That allows us to fund the overhead, um, of the company. And if there's anything over and above that it, it could be reinvested into digital assets. So really excited about our structure. Incredibly, incredibly unique. Um, within the Digital Asset Treasury world, we are the only diversified, um, active digital asset treasury out there.

Um, I feel like we've, we've brought together an a really incredible, kind of best in class management team and board of directors, which also. Sets us apart, I think in the space, uh, myself, obviously on the board, and CEO we also have as our president and CIO Sebastian Bea, who is the former president of Coinbase Asset Management.

Uh, he will be responsible for generating those returns that, uh, that I talked about on our assets. And then expected to be on, on our board of directors. We have re Collins, who was one of the original co-founders of Tether. Uh, we have Chin Chew, um, who is, was employee number five, I believe, at Blackstone.

Uh, now founder and, and CEO of CC Capital, which is a large, uh, private equity company based here in New York. Uh, we have Wilbur Ross, former commerce, uh, secretary as a as. One of our vice chairs as well as Gabriel Abed, who, um, is the chair of the board of the world's largest, uh, digital Asset Exchange. Uh, and then John dagostino, who is the head of strategy for Coinbase Institutional.

So really excited about the team that we've pulled together Really. Depths of crypto, but then also Wall Street and, uh, and regulatory or Washington, a very seasoned team. Tons and tons and tons of experience with, um, with public companies and, uh, capital raising and m and a activities. So really excited to, uh, to bring this, this team out and get to work when we get the transaction closed this fall.

Stephen: Yeah, I think I even listed in my discussion topics like these are Avengers. I know, you know, we all know if you're in Canada, you know Gabriel, but a lot of these people just don't have like local, you know, they worked at Coinbase. They have like a wide variety of like educating regulators and getting regulators on board.

so. Like that poli, they know the bureaucracy that goes involved in the education. That must take, You know, on your website, Jaime ReserveOne makes it clear that it's not an ETF and it's not a token. So I'd love to know what's a differentiator between the public company that you're running and these other financial products that other investors are investing in.

Jaime: Yeah, there, there are a lot of differences, obviously, um, from. A public company, which is what we are, uh, versus an ETF. So a public, an ETF has limitations as far as what can be included, um, what kind of leverage they can take on, what they can do with the assets. Whereas a public company vehicle such as ReserveOne, uh, has access to, to different types of capital markets products to longer term leverage.

We don't have the same, um, mark to market restrictions that, that an ETF would have or, or different types of, of other investment vehicles. We also have, as I mentioned, we are, we're a diversi diversified, uh, company. We. Are able to, uh, to make adjustments over time. We're able to put the assets to work in meaningful ways that those kinds of structures just aren't available, uh, in, in an ETF format, if you will.

and I think what's really special about what we have here at ReserveOne we're give, we can give, um, investors. Access to the crypto market in one equity. So again, we're 80% Bitcoin, we're 20% alts. And then the other thing we've embedded in our structure, um, which I think will become more relevant and medium and, and long-term as we, as we think about the future of where this company is ultimately going to go.

Uh, but we do have the opportunity to invest up to 10% of the digital assets that we hold on our balance sheet. Into high conviction venture opportunities and that, and one thing we hear from retail investors over and over and over is that they would love to get access to deals in the private market within this ecosystem.

It's really, really difficult for the average investor to do that. So where we see truly high conviction projects come through that we think retail investors would love, we think they're gonna have great returns. Uh, we've, we have the, the structure in order to be able to, to offer that within, within our, our platform.

And again, it's just. One equity that gives you a more diversified type of expo exposure to this industry as a whole. Uh, and that's something that you can't get anywhere else in any other structure or any other public company, um, that's in existence today. And that's truly why, uh, we're so excited about what, what we're building, why we've built it the way we've built it.

And we think it's gonna be, A really compelling, uh, story, not just, not just day one, uh, when we get the, get the new ticker and are officially closed, but as we look to build and grow this company, uh, over the next 1, 3, 5, 10 years.

Stephen: You mentioned, you know, making money on top of your capital. You mentioned the word yield. Fermenting the crypto that may be have invested in anchor or Celsius. The word yield is probably still giving them nightmares, but you're probably talking about staking yield, which is protocol activity

you're making money from not, you know, loaning out the actual digital asset.

Maybe talk about where, what you define as yield and how maybe your investors can get access to that, where it's almost impossible to get access to that through some of those other financial products that we discussed earlier.

Jaime: absolutely. So look, we kind of, we're building something that we really want to be best in class. The gold standard, uh, within our space we're, you know, working with top tier auditors, top tier, um, professional counterparties and, and really looking to anything we do is with the appropriate, um, lens on risk.

So we are, we're very blessed to have a number of strategic partners involved with us on this, this journey. Uh, many of whom I've worked, I've had the pleasure of working with over the years. Uh, so like Galaxy, Falcon x kraken blockchain.com, um, they're, they're all with, with us in this journey. And those are the types of counterparties that we're comfortable working with.

Coinbase is, uh, is is our partner for our secured. Custody of our Bitcoin. Um, so really not looking to generate outsized yields with kind of fly by night counterparties, which is what caused a lot of the downfall of that. Um. Of that cycle, we'll call it. Um, so certainly not, not looking to get involved or try to drive outsized returns by taking outsized risk, really looking for very low risk stable, working with, with trusted, well-governed, regulated counterparties to generate, um, to generate returns.

Obviously yes, through staking, uh, but. Given, uh, my many, many, many years in the, in the Bitcoin world, uh, on the mining side, I think there are lots of really interesting ways that, that we can partner within the ecosystem to put Bitcoin to work in a way that, uh, that is meaningful, but is still appropriately risk adjusted.

Stephen: Is it challenging? You know, you're working with billions of dollars just like some of those other financial products we mentioned, but you're kind of going on the momentum of the US government, uh, the momentum of Trump and his administration and their forward thinking and innovation. But there's also the aspect of like, Hey, you know, things are great right now, but in two years we'll be in another election is it tough building in this space? Uh, especially because a lot of the regulatory clarity rests on the shoulders of this administration.

Jaime: Well, I, I think there's, look, the industry has done a lot of work over the years to try to keep, Crypto Bitcoin, the space as bipartisan as possible. And we saw, we saw that in the passing of genius. It, it went through in a very bipartisan fashion. And I think, It's necessary for that to continue to be the focus we have to work with, um, with regulators and, and with politicians to educate and ensure that this, that this remains a bipartisan, Issue or bipartisan industry. It's not, it shouldn't be politicized. Um, and so I think we just have to continue to do that, that work that the, the industry's been doing over the last number of years. Um, and, and ensure that, Both sides of the, of the aisle see this as an industry that needs to be invested in that can really put the US, uh, on the forefront of di of digital innovation.

And I think, I think more and more we're, we're gonna see that to be the case. So I've got a lot of optimism that election cycles will no longer, um, have, have the impact on our industry that, that they once did.

Stephen: I think we've kind of passed that threshold now. Before it was like a lot of back and forth. I think we've passed the threshold. We've seen the optimism from everyone in the industry, including regulators. I'm curious, you're probably your Canadian friends are probably like, Hey, bring some of that genius back home when you come home. 'cause we need a little bit more clarity when it comes to stable coins in Canada. Treating them like securities is like shooting ourselves in the foot. I think most people would say, uh, I know it's a lot more nuance and complex than that. Uh, what are your thoughts, the stablecoin regulation in the US versus Canada?

Do you think Canada can adopt something like the US has and make stable coins actually help the payment rails? Versus right now with really just hindering them.

Jaime: Yeah, look, it's, it's been so difficult, uh, being a Canadian in this space. I, I first went down the rabbit hole in Canada in 2017 and we had such a burgeoning ecosystem. When I first came into this space, there were, we had, we had, we had so much momentum. We had so many founders, so many innovators. Um, even our regulatory environment was, was broadly positive.

You saw, um, the TSXV was the first to list public crypto companies. Um, so I, I, we really had, um, a. A forward leaning position. We, I, in many ways, we had a, a bit of a first mover advantage. Ethereum was founded in Canada, a ton of incredible founder cz, who's the, um, the founder and, and, and, um, the, the founder of.

Finance is, is Canadian and grew up in the ecosystem, obviously. Uh, Gabe, who's on on our board, spent a lot of time in Canada going to university there. Um, and we lost so much of that talent. So much of that talent has, has left. So many of those companies have have left. It's, it's been really hard and, and sad to watch.

I think our regulatory environment unfortunately has. Has moved in the wrong direction. Uh, Stablecoins being securities just makes absolutely no sense and it's counter to what, what every other kind of thoughtful, innovative government has done. Uh, with respect to stable Coin legislation. So very much my hope is, um, as we, as we get clarity through, uh, the US government, which, which I think there's optimism, clarity gets, gets passed.

Um, this fall, I think we'll see governments around the world, including Canada, start to really mirror a regulatory environment that, um, that looks more like what the US has done and, and. It certainly behooves them to do so. Um, the United States has the, the, the deepest capital markets in the world. That's not gonna change anytime soon.

Companies need to be there for liquidity reasons as they, as they grow and scale. Um, a lot of the capital that helps form these companies comes out of the US and so we need, we really need to be working more. More closely or be, be better aligned, uh, with how we're treating these assets. If we, if we're gonna expect, um, or hope for, uh, that innovation economy to come back into Canada in this space.

Stephen: I think both of us have been in Meetup since, you know, 2017, 2018 we saw the trials of three IQ and every meetup was like, Hey, we finally won, or we're, we're getting there. And it's like, if you're a builder in this space, that doesn't seem like a fun path. Even if you win it's not really a fun path to build in.

And eventually it's just like the war of attrition. Eventually you're like, Hey, let's just go build somewhere else where they want to invite companies like ours. We saw that with Leadin having to kind of leave Canada go into other jurisdictions because it's like they couldn't wait on the regulations to kind of yield to what they were trying to do. Uh, I would love for you to kind of just give a high level, 'cause you know, genius Act passes, but there's also the Clarity Act.

There's also the anti CBDC act, uh, which seems optimistic for a similar path as genius. Kind of like, can you give me a high level of those two acts and how it impacts ReserveOne and just the crypto ecosystem in general in the us.

Jaime: Yeah, gen, what Genius gives us is, is clarity around stable coins. But, but what we really need, after that is clarity around the rest of the, of the digital assets within the ecosystem. So, um, we, we know that, uh, that Bitcoin is a commodity and, and it's regulated as such, and, and that. That's clear. But for the, for the rest of the ecosystem, we do not have clarity on how they're going to be treated.

Um. With respect to are they a commodity? Are they a security? And the Clarity Act is what is, what will, will bring exactly that clarity, hence the name, um, to the, to the rest of the digital assets in the ecosystem that we, that we really care about. And so I think, um, there's a lot of reason for optimism that once clarity gets passed officially, the clarity.

Clarity act, um, that, that we'll see a halo come into these other digital assets that have been waiting for that regulatory, that market clarity. Um, which, which is one of the reasons that, that we're excited that we have not just a Bitcoin only company, that we're rooted in Bitcoin, but we still have, um, exposure to these other assets that I think are gonna, are gonna come in to their, their own season here with, um, with the regulatory clarity that we, we hope to get out of, out of these, uh, these last bills.

Stephen: I know you're following probably this, you know, the Bitcoin Reserve as well as the digital asset stockpile, and using that as a framework. Is there any other crypto assets? You've been around in the industry for, you know, eight, nine years. Are there any other assets you're like, Hey, it's not a priority, but it'd be kind of cool to see us like participate in these assets.

'cause you've been around the ecosystem, probably know a lot of the founders and probably utility of a lot of these tokens. Is there any other assets

you're like, Hey, if I had to bring in a six man for this team, this would be another asset to add to the books?

Jaime: Ooh, it's hard. It's like picking favorites amongst your friends, right? Um, there are some people that I just have a ton of respect for that have been builders in this space a long time. Uh, John Wu is probably right at, right at the top of that list. I'm a big, big fan of John and, and the work that he's doing.

And, and would be hopeful that, uh, that, that he, he may, he may be able to be included in that over time. Um, I think. I, I've had, uh, I, I've had love affairs over the years with various tokens associated with, you know, projects that, that, that they were working on that I thought were really exciting. Um, so yeah, I don't, I don't.

I don't, I don't wanna go go too far in alienating my, my other founder friends, but, uh, I think, I think we'll probably see six or seven more added to the digital asset stockpile. Um, and, uh, and that's gonna be really exciting. I'm really, uh, I'm really rooting for a, for a number of founders in, in that regard.

For sure.

Stephen: I love it. Were you surprised at some of the tokens they picked, because it's a range of like, hey, just hyped tokens, like Solana, but then Cardano's in there, like very foundational. Were you su based on like the, their experience with digital assets? Were you surprised that they really covered a lot of their bases with that digital asset stockpile and then just be like, okay, Ethereum and Solana.

Jaime: Yeah, look, I think There's a lot of momentum around the assets that they, that they did choose. there are massive communities that support XRP and a DA. Um, the, the team, the founding teams have done a ton of work Bringing attention to the, to their projects, bringing users, bringing developers, investing in, in, up, in updating and, and constantly evolving those chains.

So I think, um, it really doesn't surprise me, the, the teams, the communities have, have put in a ton of work, to get those, to get those tokens, uh, where they are.

Stephen: I love it. Um, you're entrepreneurial, you know, and you're, you know, there a lot, there's a lot of talk about moats these days, especially with ai. How do you defend against new entrants? You know, we have a lot of crypto millionaires and soon to be billionaires. How do you defend on someone's like, Hey, I have a billion dollars worth of capital.

I'm just gonna follow their exact game plan. I'm assuming there's a lot of strategy that goes around like people, relationships and networks, and the ability to understand these markets far beyond of just having a billion dollars to deploy.

Jaime: Yeah, I think, look, it's running public companies is difficult. I think people, um, kind of underestimate the complexity. Um, the cost, the, the paperwork. I mean, it's, it's, it is very, very intense. Um, governance, regulatory, all of all of the things involved in being under the level of, of scrutiny that you are running a public company, I think.

Um, I think people that are new to the, to the space are, as anyone, would be until you've sat in this chair. It's really, it's impossible to imagine, um, just how difficult it is to, to run a public company in particular, in digital assets in this market. Um, so I think, I think that. That's a moat for sure. Um, I think, I think scale is going to be more increasingly important over time.

Um, you need, you need to be scaled. You need to have the ability to be a consolidator during different market, uh, conditions. Which, which takes, it takes experience, it takes expertise. It takes gr it takes grit in a lot of cases. So, um, yeah, I think, um, I think it's really important to have to, to establish a moat with a first mover advantage.

Like, like we have, being, being the first diversified, scaled, actively generating returns on the assets, with a very differentiated management team. And then really just looking to, to. Continue to drive and grow and, and scale and hold that first mover, uh, position, which is certainly the intention of, uh, of the, the Avenger team that I've assembled over here.

Stephen: That it is amazing. It is a tough, you know, you're operational, but you're also dealing with a lot of high level people that have a very demand experience. Knowledge and their, you know, a players in their own right as a CEO or as someone that's trying to build a team as a startup, how difficult is it to run with a bunch of a players, or does it make it easier that you're now so focused on a certain, you know, risk or responsibility or a task that you don't have to kind of walk them through some of the other things that more inexperienced professionals that you might have to do there?

Jaime: Yeah, I think, I think the fact that it, it is, it's all seasoned professionals. many of us have known each other for many years. So there's, there's a trust that's, that's established. we kn we know where we wanna go. We, we. We're not afraid to, to do the work and, make the investments to get us there.

So, no, I think we're, uh, we're blessed by experience and, and blessed by, by embedded trust, which, um, which, which takes time to establish. And, and we're lucky that we, we have it, uh, right outta the gate.

Stephen: I think, you know, everyone's been in the industry long enough that there's a minimal level of you. You know that they're in it for the right reasons, because if they weren't, there's so many opportunities where they could have exited the train.

Jaime: Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely.

Stephen: I, you know, I was scaling through your, your LinkedIn. I saw a picture on wonderful picture as a parent, a wonderful picture of your two daughters with you at Times Square Reserve. One proudly in the background displayed on a huge electronic banner, but your daughters look older and I have to say like you're building a lot of what you're building is probably as you're raising these two amazing human beings.

How challenging it would, not even just as a mother, but as a parent in general. I, I'm a husband. I know when, you know, my, my kids get sick, they're not running to my, to me, you know? So how hard or challenging was it to be a builder in this space and do you have any advice for other, you know, a lot of people having parents, a lot of people have kids now that are building these companies.

Any advice for them on things that you've experienced that you're like, Hey, you know, maybe it's travel, you're bringing your family with you, more expensive to travel with them, but like. You created these experiences. Anything that you can levy to these people that are watching you and be like, wow, like that's a huge proud mom moment, proud parent moment. I would love to replicate that.

Jaime: Yeah, that the, the, the Times Square experience that we had a few weeks ago was, was incredible. Um, you know, a a, a number of stars had to align in order for the, for that experience to have, to have been able to, to happen. Um, and so tons of gratitude to. To everybody that was, that was behind that. Um, I think for, for me, it's raising daughters as well.

Like, I'm, I'm the, I'm the mom of two girls. Um, being a role model and thinking about what I'm modeling, um, has always kind of been in the, in the back of my mind. I've always been very careful. Uh, not to complain about work, um, which is a, a lot of people just kind of do that at a, at a habit. Um, but I, I often talk about how, how blessed I am.

I love, I love my career, I love my work, I love my teams, and I make sure that that. They know that, I think that's been important. Um, I do take them with me from time to time on business trips where, where we can, um, do, do something fun or I can expose them to the industry in some way, uh, which has been awesome.

I have them come, uh, and, and listen to me speak, do public speaking so that they, uh, my work isn't just this thing that's off in the ether. Like they, they actually understand that they're connected to it. They, they, they see me in action, so it's more tangible. Um, they understand that, that I, that I love it and it, and it is, I, I consider it a blessing to be able to have had the career that I've had.

of course. they pay us, they pay a bit of a price as well for having a working mom that travels and, some days I think I'm gonna be able to take a day off and I end up not, not stepping away from my laptop for even five minutes. So, you know, they, they pay the price for that. And I think just being open and, and communicating.

Trying to make up for it later as, as much as you can, is really all you can do. And look, the other thing I had to make my peace with really, really early on was I'm not gonna, I'm not the mom that's, that's baking the cookies. I, I, I'm not on the PTA, like, that's just, that's not on the cards for me.

Stephen: Fun fact, nobody wants to be on the PTA. Everyone talks about the PTA My wife was there for like four months. She's like, is this what the PTA is? I'll just stay home every Wednesday night. Thank you.

Jaime: But the, I think the most important thing is not feeling guilty. Like my, my girls get a different type of experience, a different type of exposure, and unfortunately I'm not gonna feel bad that I don't have time to fit in the cupcakes. Like there is no world where you can be the super mom and you can do.

Everything that everyone does, it just, it doesn't happen and it's gonna create too much, you know, stress within you. You kind of have to think, pick your lanes and, and focus. And in many cases, over the years, I've, I've had to outsource and, and just, I wanna spend quality time with my family. I wanna spend quality time with, with my kids, with my husband.

I wanna be able to focus on my job. So Uber Eats delivers my groceries, or, you know, um, you just, you can't do it all. So figure out what's important to you. Focus on that and, and figure out how to, how to minimize the, uh, the stress of the rest,

Stephen: I'm not gonna touch ages, but you know, I'm of the age. My, you know, I didn't see my parents either. Like they come to maybe a game here and there, but like our parents were working, our parents didn't have the luxury of internet and cell phone. At least minded didn't. We're like, we didn't see them. We saw our babysitters like you.

Everyone went to the babysitter. Everyone played in the streets till eight o'clock at night. We would that's. our parents maybe on the weekends, but they were exhausted. I don't know when society came to the point where it's like, we wanna do everything with our kids. I'm like, oh, I was never raised like that.

So it seems kind of odd. And for the most part, I think we turned that dollar. I think we turned that dollar right.

Jaime: I think, I think we did. I think we're a good generation. I think you and I are the same vintage. Uh, but I also was blessed. I had my, I, I had a working mom. She was an, she was an executive when I was growing up, and it just didn't occur to me not to, to wanna try to do the same thing.

Stephen: I, I agree. You know, there's a couple stats going around. I'm not sure if it was your website, but the projected stats for 2030 that around 25% of s and p 500 companies will hold BTC long term as a long term asset. A let me know, why is this, why is this important for companies? What's a competitive advantage for companies to hold Bitcoin and what's the bottleneck?

Why don't we have 50 or 75% of our companies holding Bitcoin? What's their, you know, what's their thing that's holding them back from jumping in, you know, with both feet?

Jaime: Look, I think we we're still early. Um, there are, as, as, as much as I've been in, in this space for as long as I have, uh, I would say the majority of my friends and family still haven't, haven't. Um. taken on any direct digital asset exposure, be a Bitcoin or anything else. Uh, so there's still very much an educational curve that people need to climb.

Um, I think for, for public companies, especially if, if it's not in, in their core business, they have to get a lot of stakeholders aligned with making a shift like that, of, of putting, uh, Bitcoin as a treasury asset, um, as opposed to just whatever the, the local fee it is. But I think. why it's becoming increasingly common and WI think will continue to be at, at a more accelerated rate is people are just starting to really understand, uh, the purchasing power that's being eroded from fiat.

And so looking at something that in, you know, over its, its lifespan, go, you know, going back to when it first had a monetary value in oh 9 20 10, whenever the. Pizza was paid for. Bitcoin is a harder store of value. It just, it just is. Um, and over time, just given this, the scarcity that's built into the system, purchasing power of Bitcoin increases while purchasing power of fiat decreases.

So, uh, it. It's really just a smart play to have a, a harder, uh, store of value as part of your treasury strategy. And it all comes down to, to purchasing power over time, which is what, what is driving the trend and I think is going to accelerate the trend.

Stephen: I think, you know, uh, maybe not. Remember, companies are run by people and you

know, as a person I'm like, oh, there's not really like a clear line in the sand of someone that has crypto or invests in crypto that resembles me, right? Either it's the Crypto Bros or Lambert Lamborghinis, they end up in jail for doing something or another.

Or there's like, you know, the people like Michael Sailor, that's like, okay, he was rich already, or something of the equivalent and you know, Papalano, like they're already investing in things and that, that's not really realistic for me either. There's not really a common man's person that's like, yeah, I invest in crypto.

I also, you know, work, you know, at a regular executive job. There's not really that kind of lineage I feel that people can attract themselves to and be like, yeah, that seems like a person like me. It's either one, you know, side of the spectrum of shiny. I'm a crypto rapper. And the other side of the spectrum of these people already had money and now they're just leveraging crypto.

There's no real like working class, you know, blue collar crypto people that I feel that people can relate to. I could be wrong, but what are your thoughts on that?

Jaime: Look, I think, I think the big, the, the personalities that dominate the space are, yeah. They're, they, you, it's hard to see yourself in those, those, those dominant personalities. I would argue. Working women should be able to see themselves in, in me. I'm not, I'm not a crypto bro. Uh, I'm a builder. I'm a technologist.

That's how I got here. I'm not, I'm not a cowboy. I, my team is in a bunch of cowboys, so I think we are breaking the mold a little bit with, um. With what we're building here at ReserveOne. And, and that's, that is, that's gonna continue to be the case. Um, you're not gonna see me driving a Lamborghini or doing anything wearing crazy clothes.

Like I'm just a normal, uh, technology executive that happens to be in this space. And I, I love it very much and I'm, I'm grateful to be here, but. This is how I would dress and talk and act if I was still in trad tech or tradify. Um, I would say, and that that's very, very true about all of the people around me as well.

It we're, we're just, we're professionals, we're built, we're building, we're leading. and the industry is something we, we believe in. but it doesn't define us as far as our, our personalities go.

Stephen: I would still picture you in like a red Ferrari with like the license plate that says like the fixer, because you're always working in transformational, so

Jaime: Not this time. The beauty of reserve wine is I actually get to build it right outta the gate with the right team, right structure, right Governance. I, I don't, this is the first time I'm, I'm not fixing anything. It's a, it's a beautiful thing.

Stephen: And it is paid off with that like backdrop. I know I commented on, but just a beautiful backdrop looking up to the lake in New York City. I love it. Any exciting news, anything in the industry that you're excited about or that you can disclose about the team? I know it's a really hard publicly company, but is there anything that you're excited about in the industry?

You're like, Hey, I see the word that being used a lot more. I'm sure there's gonna be a wave of, everything's a that, just like everything was a SPAC.

What are your thoughts about, uh, the future of the industry and what ReserveOne where you guys fit in it?

Jaime: Yeah, no. Look, I think we have seen the creation of a new category strategy, started it arguably and kind of owned it. but over the last few months it's, it's become a, a category in and of itself, and I think that's exciting. I think it'll continue to be a very hot topic of conversation in the space over the, the short and medium term.

And I'm excited. Just looking at my calendar for the next few months, it's, uh, it's gonna be, uh, a lot of fabulous conversations happening all over the world, and investors are very, very excited. I think. I think there's something here that, um, that is, is going to be here for the long term and it's exciting to be on the leading edge of it and be, and being able to build something that's, that's really, really unique in the space.

And, I love getting out. And telling our story. So again, thank you for having me on and, and being able to do just that here.

Stephen: We appreciate, where's the best place for people to find you? I know LinkedIn, you do a lot of great

Jaime: Mm-hmm.

Stephen: there. I'm assuming maybe you're on Twitter, but maybe not as much. 'cause Twitter's very noisy. I could be wrong, but very nosy, noisy for, you know, traditional folks that are trying to get into crypto.

Where's the best place for people to find you?

Jaime: Yeah, look, one of, uh, one of the other things I'm blessed with is a really unique name. So I'm the only Jaime Leverton in the world, uh, especially spelled the way I spell my first name, which is J-A-I-M-E. There's a whole story behind that, which, uh, we can go into another day. Uh, so I'm at Jaime Leverton on Twitter, on Telegram, uh, on LinkedIn.

I, I. Literally just Google my name and you'll find a way to, to connect with me. jaimeleverton.com is the website that I use for my, um, for my venture and advisory business that I started a couple of years ago. Um, so, or you can just email me, Jaime@reserveone.com. Very, I'm very accessible,

Stephen: Very risky, but yeah, very accessible,

Jaime: very accessible. I got a great security team, so don't do anything weird. They'll catch you.

Stephen: Last question before we go. You know, you're working with people that are in mining and that the centers, which I'm sure that overlaps and bleeds into ai. You're working with some of the top professionals in every unique part of the industry. They've been in the industry for so long. What are the nerdy, and I can say that as a term of endearment in crypto because we can use the word nerd and people love that.

What are they playing with? Like what are some of the things it is like cold plunges it, is it red, like saunas? What are some of the interesting things that maybe you're doing, uh, to obviously to keep up with your schedule from, uh, biological or health perspective, or what are some of the things that you're playing?

Are you like investing in Neuralink or seeing what people are doing there? I'm curious.

Jaime: I'm old school. I, I like, I like my intermittent fasting. I like my daily Pilates. I. I like my, my jogs. I haven't gone, I haven't gone too crazy on the, on the, the, the new, the new health side, I, I sit on some amazing boards, so I'm on the Board of Riot Platforms, a team that I've obviously known for many years have tons of respect for.

I'm on the team, on the, the board of a, of an AI startup company. Called Vertical Data that's doing some amazing things in inference. Uh, I am on the board of, uh, Syntech, which is just an awesome infrastructure infrastructure provider to both the Bitcoin mining side of the world as well as HPC, and I'm proud to chair that board.

Uh, and then I'm also on the board of a, of a great Canadian oil and gas company, uh, called New West Data, where, um, they're an oil. And gas company. They own, um, producing oil wells and, uh, and they have Bitcoin as their byproduct, uh, from carbon capture, which is just an amazing, like, such a great Canadian story.

Bitcoin as a byproduct, I just think is, is wild and, and absolutely where, where the future is going to go when we think about, you know, energy production and, and avoiding that, um, that those carbon emissions in a, in a really unique way. So, yeah, I got a ton on my plate, but it's all stuff as you can, as you can see, I'm super passionate about.

They're all just amazing teams. I try to associate myself with, uh, as, as low ego individuals as possible, and I'm blessed that across my slate, uh, ReserveOne and everything else I touch or just really, really good positive, solid, lovely people, uh, doing great work.

Stephen: That's amazing. I think that's probably advice for anyone listening to the podcast, low Ego high, high returns seems to be maybe high risk too with some of the ventures that you've been a part of. Now I get to say I've interviewed the one and only. Jaime Leverton as you are the one.

Jaime, it's so glad I, I saw what you were talking about on ReserveOne, and I reached out to you and I'm like, Hey, I would love to hear more about what you're building because everything sounds the same when we're getting now in from Tradify to Web3.

So I love the fact that you're able to kind of show us the differentiations, especially with building another public company and building it up. It was great to have you on the podcast.

Jaime: Great to be here. Always, always happy to to hang out with you.

Stephen: Thank you so much.

Jaime: Of course.

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